There have been tons of incorrect information about chiropractic practices, and the medical field is affected. In this new episode of the Medical Insider, Dr. Sherry and I talked about what chiropractors do, how it is different from other medical providers, how it is relevant in the present and the future, and more insightful facts about chiropractic treatment.
About Dr. Sherry McAllister
- President of the “Foundation for Chiropractic Progress” and Host of “Adjusted Reality” Podcast where she deals with current issues in healthcare from a Chiropractic perspective.
- Dr. Sherry has recently started a new position as Chairwoman at iSAW international focusing on Women’s Development.
Stay tuned for more exciting and insightful episodes! Follow and subscribe to our podcast using the links below ⏬⏬⏬
Website: https://themedicalinsider.buzzsprout.com/
Apple Podcast: https://apple.co/3FVK4IU
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3NkufxH
Youtube: https://bit.ly/3lnlbMo
There have been tons of incorrect information about chiropractic practices, and the medical field is affected. In this new episode of the Medical Insider, Dr. Sherry and I talked about what chiropractors do, how it is different from other medical providers, how it is relevant in the present and the future, and more insightful facts about chiropractic treatment.
About Dr. Sherry McAllister
- President of the “Foundation for Chiropractic Progress” and Host of “Adjusted Reality” Podcast where she deals with current issues in healthcare from a Chiropractic perspective.
- Dr. Sherry has recently started a new position as Chairwoman at iSAW international focusing on Women’s Development.
Stay tuned for more exciting and insightful episodes! Follow and subscribe to our podcast using the links below ⏬⏬⏬
Website: https://themedicalinsider.buzzsprout.com/
Apple Podcast: https://apple.co/3FVK4IU
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3NkufxH
Youtube: https://bit.ly/3lnlbMo
Intro
Welcome to "The Medical Insider" podcast, where we highlight real-life solutions to your health challenges, encorporate new technology and proven solutions from the past with a healthy dose of common sense while resisting the pitfalls of idiopathic classifications and economically-based medical doctrine. This is your host, Dr. Thomas Santucci. Let's get started.
Dr. Thomas
Good morning. Welcome to "The Medical Insider" podcast. I'm here with Dr. Sherry McAllister, and Dr. McAllister is an accomplished physician who is the president of the “Foundation for Chiropractor Progress” and host of "Adjusted Reality" podcast. "Adjusted Reality" is kind of a cool insider chiropractic joke because chiropractors adjust things. Dr. Sherry started a new position as Chairwoman of iSAW International, and we're going to let her talk about that. In her podcast, you can kind of tell what a person is made of by who they're interviewing. And she just finished her third season, and her podcast, she characterizes as meaningful and fun conversations, centered around health, wellness, and lighthearted inspiring stories. Light-hearted is something we have never accomplished, so that will be a good juxtaposition. I just want to recap some of those episodes. So, she did a podcast on meals that heals. So, like, food is drug. And then, how to change the world with a former NHL player. And these are accomplished people who have their ideas on really living. And she's going into those kinds of details. And then healthcare is in critical care, something that's an ongoing theme. We're kind of thinking we got to do something about the basic structures. Optimizing women's health and hormones is always a great subject, complex, and continually misunderstood. It's amazing how many women there are in healthcare who still haven't figured out basic hormone supplementation. But that's something that she's done. And then muscles for life, get lean, strong, and healthy at any age. I really like that one. You know, the day you die, you're going to have a lot less protein on you than the day before. So, muscles are important, and I think we're leaving those out. Overcoming left brain laziness. We'll talk about that a little bit more later. And then healthy habits that create success. This is one of our themes. You create the existence that you want to live in. You're responsible. And then try them through recovery with retired Staff Sergeant Shilo Harris. That's amazing because you know, we kind of look at health as either being an optimization thing or a recovery from physical and not so much neuropsychological or chemical dependencies. The people that take that on, they're really artists and, you know, looking at that. So, Dr. Sherry is not afraid to take on history, challenges, and lifestyle aspects of health while detailing or dealing with the details of clinical, nutrition, and neurology to expand the understanding of her patients. So, with that, I welcome Dr. Sherry.
Dr. Sherry
Outstanding. Thank you so much Dr. Santucci for having me.
Dr. Thomas
Yes. So, I was trying to kind of think how to characterize this. And one of the things we talked a little bit about is it's a difficult age to be any kind of a doctor. There's lots of misunderstanding between groups and there's lots of protection within more like the conventional practitioners. You're a chiropractor, but you're also kind of an ambassador and you're also kind of an early adopter free thinker. What would you say are the best changes you've seen in chiropractic or chiropractic cooperation with conventional medicine and kind of some of the new trends that are hopeful and optimistic?
Dr. Sherry
It is a very extraordinary time to be living, and especially since we've hit some critical unfortunate events, and one being the opioid epidemic. And all that has come with the CDC showcasing 187 deaths a day.
Dr. Thomas
Wow.
Dr. Sherry
When I started with the foundation six years ago, I thought 73 was massive. So, think about where we are today from 73 to 187 a day. Then we get hit with an extraordinary time having a pandemic where social isolation and barriers to getting care became the norm. And that also put health care providers in this really awkward place where they're trying to do their continued work for those that have chronic conditions, yet they have these very severe acute events that are happening. Plus their own health and welfare were at risk. They didn't know at the beginning, as an essential healthcare provider, what they were going to be placed in. So you have to think back to 2019 when the world kind of seemed like a somewhat "normal place", to 2022. And now seeing the amount of stress that a patient has been put in and how the medical providers and the health care providers that are non-pharmacological, that work has to now be combined into a collaborative effort. And it is absolutely critical now for the healthcare providers to work together. And that's one of the biggest changes I'm starting to see, is that medical burnout is real. Chiropractors are starting to become the essential provider for healthcare, period because they're having trouble getting into their medical providers because they're either leaving their profession and they're leaving them in droves, or there is already a gap between how many primary care physicians are necessary and what's happening in urgent care. I just got off the phone with a physician that was talking about being in the ER, 15 hours to get care, 15 hours before he actually saw a medical provider.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
So, if I want to talk about the benefits and be positive and constructive, I would say that it is 100% a moment of truth, which is, can you work with a healthcare provider who can take care of the number one disability in the world and we just break it down to one? That's low back pain.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
I do not want to see a patient in the emergency room with low back pain. They should be in a provider who cares for non-pharmacological approaches to neuromuscular scale issues, that's primary. So, I think I would say that's one major turning point for us is being able to educate the medical providers that we are a non-pharm safe, guidance-concordant choice so that we don't have them coming into your office for care that could be well dealt with in their office.
Dr. Thomas
Perfect. That's so appropriate. I'm going to transition this that one of my pet projects is I think that the scope of practice needs to be rewritten for primary care. The more and more I see any kind of doctor be effective, it's when they've taken an informed generalist kind of viewpoint. And one of the great things about being a chiropractor, and one of the horrible things about being a chiropractor is that there isn't like a delineated scope of practice. I mean, yes, it's musculoskeletal, yes, it's neural, but also it's biochemical. And now we're doing lifestyle. That sounded like a doctor right out of ancient times, not the 50s, but I'm talking about a thousand years ago and doctors were the only guy. And, so, one of the things that I think we really got wrong in the scope of practice is we made-- if you had the title or the letters MD after your name, you could do anything. I had an MD offered to adjust me and I was like, you're not trained in how to do that? And they're like, oh, well, my license lets me do it. And I thought that's absurd. It takes like four years to learn and you're willing to do it. It was crazy. So one of the things that I was sort of saying on a detailed level, I kind of was going to throw it together for you and actually would be interested in your opinions going forward. Is that, I think Orthopedics should go to Chiros, who then referred Orthopedic surgeons if necessary. My estimate on that is it will save about $100 million a year. It's insane what we're doing. When we saw like, we're doing physical medicine, but also some of the biochemistry, obviously, the neurology and now regenerative medicine. But when we were doing you know, knee injections using Wharton's jelly or even amniotic fluid or even PRP, we probably stopped 80 knee operations last year. One little clinic. So, what's the national implication of that? And then one of the things that I really realized is, you know, I have a different kind of education. I was a strategic planner and I had a finance degree, and I was in that world. The medical education that a chiropractor gets is really pretty substantial, you know, like especially these days when nurse practitioners are running half of medicine. Chiropractors are way better educated than nurse practitioners. I say that with all the love in the world. I mean, it's a great thing. And not that there aren't you know, variations on each one, but that basic level of knowledge I think is wasted right now. And I think that we need it. And I think that there's a time that's coming. The nutrition-related illnesses I see as being a split. Chiro's, naturopaths, maybe nutritionists, clinical nutritionists, and then things like hormones. I happen to be a hormone expert because we're doing bioidentical hormones. But I look at it and I go, who's in that world? And, you know, like you look at the Acupuncturists who are dealing with chemistry and energy and that kind of stuff. I'm kind of looking for a new world where we actually say, here are all the resources across the board, and now, one, put everyone on the table and see where they go. We have a history in chiropractic of being unincluded. You know, and then my personal opinion is we kind of-- you know, I think chiropractors should own low back pain, headaches, and if you're trained nutrition and if you're trained the neurologic, you know, vestibular rehab kinds of things, you know, like both of those things. And I like the idea of having subspecialties. We're seeing that in individuals, but not as a group. Do you see like the beginning of anybody initiating anything that kind of gets a big picture, almost political collaboration with like the AMA or somebody that could actually, you know, do this kind of cooperation?
Dr. Sherry
Let's just be perfectly honest. Medicine is a business.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
And when we want to start talking about collaborative, we need to talk about the return on investment. What does it mean and how does the insurance company maximize their dollars? In fact, if you go to just one system, let's just take the workers' compensation system.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
I'm going to take it when times were, "maybe normal" in 2019.
Dr. Thomas
Sure.
Dr. Sherry
Workers' compensation costs for 2019 for employers topped $100 billion.
Dr. Thomas
Wow.
Dr. Sherry
And that's the highest we've ever seen in history. And remember, this is before things started to go sideways. And meanwhile, there was an estimated 70 million days that were lost due to injury. And with that, there were another 35 million days lost due to injuries in previous years. So you can see the uptick and it is amazing. But let's talk about collaboration. What does it mean and why would we do it? If you just took the worker's compensation and you ask yourself why are we spending more than any other country in the world to get the care that is really not showing that much more improvement?
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
When you look at the average medical cost per claim, and this is a study that came out through the Workers Compensation Research Institute, and what they found was in evaluation and management, the average medical cost per claim was actually 47% lower than that for the comparable non-chiropractic only claim. So if you went to a chiropractor, your claim was 47% lower. The chiropractic only claims also-- and this is a big kicker for those that are self-insured and those who are trying to minimize the risk transfer. 35% lower indemnity payments per claim if you went to a chiropractor and get this. If you want to talk about collaboration, talk about what does it take to get people back to work?
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
If you went to a chiropractor, first doctor, they found that 26% shorter temporary disability duration. And think of the dollars that are involved in that.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
If you just take that one study alone, which is fairly epic, and it came out last year, that shows you that you have to look at the cost of benefit. Other areas where Chiropractors have been seen to do astronomically better, patient satisfaction rates is several studies will show us in the high 90s where a lot of our medical practitioners and I want to show absolute respect for them because it is imperative that we work together.
Dr. Thomas
Sure.
Dr. Sherry
But unfortunately, they have very stressful moments where they're in the patient has seven complaints and they're trying to figure out who, what, where, when, and how.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
And they're not touching their patient. And that's a big part of what chiropractic is. So we have that satisfaction rate. Also, a big part of care is fragmentation. If you start with a medical provider, for example, for a low back episode, do you stay with that medical provider? Because fragmentation of care, meaning that you go off, you see an acupuncturist, then you see the medical doctor, then you see the orthopedic surgeon, then you go back to the primary medical care. That's extremely expensive.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
And it increases our cost tenfold. It is looked at as the lowest provider for fragmentation of care is chiropractic.
Dr. Thomas
Nice.
Dr. Sherry
So that means the patients start there, they end there. And that is, in fact, why 47% of the cost is lower with that. And then we look at one more piece is we look at concordance care. Now, here's the unfortunate part. We've seen studies that have come out that actually showcase if a medical provider does not follow the guidelines that are set forth in treating an example, low back pain, and they give them an opiate, that's called non-concordance care because it doesn't follow the right current best practices.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
What happens when they do that is they set that patient up to go from acute episode of low back pain to a 30% chance. That's a big deal. A 30% chance of becoming a chronic low back pain patient for life. Imagine an insurance company wanting to pay for life for chronic low back pain. So that concordance to care, when you start with the right non-pharmacological option first saves the insurance company, saves the patient's quality of life, and in fact, helps the entire industry move forward in a way that showcases best practices.
Dr. Thomas
Right. We got the same conclusion. When we looked at even low back pain, cervical pain, and headaches there's like almost half a trillion dollars over ten years that could be saved. So when we're talking about healthcare being a cost, that's going out of-- that spinning out. Traditionally, I can really relate to the statement of being the last doctor. I mean, our statement used to be that you had to be kind of a genius to find us. And if you did, we understood that we were your 10th doctor and you had no money. At the same time, we only took on workers comp claim as a huge favor because the system was so unwieldy and what they thought was normal. We were throwing the book at it. We were doing the advanced neurology, the vestibular rehab. I had $500,000 for the rehab equipment. We had people that really cared and knew what they were doing. We were doing it all. And they would walk in and say, how come you didn't fix the person in four visits? And I was kind of like, I will sit at the feet of the person that can fix someone like this messed up in four visits. And then the other thing that I just think really needs to change is the whole business of employers really having insight into what's going on. You know we sent him to the orthopedic surgeon, and my little brother is a surgeon. He's a fabulous doctor. He's really a clever human being. He's smart as hell. He's well-meaning. I wouldn't let him design an exercise program if my life depended on it. And he wouldn't know what to do with a bulging disc or, you know, an inflammatory cascade or, you know, all the things that we kind of view as normal in a rehab world. But he thinks he can. You know, and so, I was like, okay, the minute you put down that scalpel, that patient's mine. And that's what we did. And so, it was fairly aggressive. We got some pushback, especially on the neuro side. And, you know, we're like, you know the chiro neurology is better than your neurology. So I'm not as collaborative as you are. You're much nicer than me. But, you know, I was like, no, you know, you don't know how to do this. And I do. But even in those systems, we would elect sometimes just not to be paid, rather than to deal with kind of being judged by people who didn't have the details on how to do it. One of the things that I'm looking at is in two different situations of setting up a medical system in another country where you just take a blank sheet of paper and you go to St. Thomas and you basically say, I'm taking over the medical healthcare system. And without the politics, it isn't that hard. And then you don't leave any resources on the table. So I still have-- I'm kind of a cautious optimist when this is coming down to it. I see a lot of very good doctors, and I see a lot of people frustrated on all sides. And then once again, I kind of don't see just from, you know, my little world practicing, I don't see the institutions really catching up with what people want. And I remember being in the California Chiropractic Association for a while thereafter I practiced, like, ten years, I was like, I'm going to give back and do this thing, and we were going to write the strategic plan. So I was a strategic planner before I was a doctor. So I was like, I'll donate that. And I had this tagline that said, my chiropractor is my primary care physician. And we were going to do like billboards on a bus. I turned so many people to a lighter shade of white than they already were than you couldn't possibly believe. It was like, are you kidding me? And I was like, what are you talking about? It's our license. We're allowed to say that. And they're like, yeah, but that'll raise eyebrows and cause problems and do all this stuff. And I said, then let it do that. But that's what California has done. Even now, it's kind of bimodal in terms of like, acceptance in society. So, we spend a lot of time going, I'm a certified nutritional specialist. I've got, you know, 1000 hours of advanced neurology. That it's almost like we need to change the word or something. You know, it has to be these, you know, physical medicine, you know, first alert doctors or something. Because right now if it's MD and it's Chiropractor, you know, I've emptied MD cocktail parties by saying everybody deserves individual care. You know, I don't see it at my level, but hopefully, your generation is going to do a better job than we did at collaborating as we just sort of thought. You know, hopefully, there's an opening there. You know, it's almost like I'm beginning to see in this late stage of life, you know, like I'm almost 70, that politics is the answer. That getting into something that has got some political teeth makes a difference. So tell me a little bit about the work that you're doing. You're a chairwoman of one organization and a president of another organization. What's going on in politics?
Dr. Sherry
Well, you had a lot that I want to unravel there and I want to thank your brother for being an orthopedic surgeon. And I think it's relative to go back to the costs because it's what functionally, even with politics is we try to get the best outcome with the least cost. I mean, that's why we end up going to Target and Walmart, right? We have something we don't want to spend an exorbitant amount, but we want to get a value for our dollar. And having you know that your brother was an orthopedic surgeon, it comes back to-- let's think about--
Dr. Thomas
He's a urologist.
Dr. Sherry
You're right. Then I wouldn't definitely want him doing an exercise program. But if you look at and we stayed true to form and just, you know, apples to apples and going back to low back pain, there was a study out of the Journal of Neurological Sciences in 2021 and the author is Deng. And what he noted was that 1.2% of patients with low back pain actually receive surgery, which is a good number for their problem. But here's the thing that should get people and this is where you have to stop and think what? 30% of costs were attributed to those 1.2% in the big picture.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
And this finding is especially concerning given that laser spine surgeries grew in this one study by 276% between 2002 and 2014. So, a massive growth even though it's minimally invasive, it costs 30% of the expenditures for workers' compensation.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
So that 1.2% of people are spending 30% of the dollars. And that's where I start to contemplate something's not right. When you start talking about collaboration, that's the time where we have to start looking at who's providing the best quality care at the lowest price, putting the patient at the lowest risk. As we move forward and I start thinking about being the president of the foundation, is trying to get the knowledge and the wisdom out without creating an abrasive outcome. So one of our podcasts is The Truth. It is, absolutely. It's by a legendary doctor, Dr. Louis Sportelli. It just came out on September 15th, which was The Founders Day week of Chiropractic. And it really talked about the assassination of the chiropractic profession in logistics, like true to form, like no one else could do. Dr. Louis Sportelli put it down because he is in that age range where he was there, he heard it, he saw it, he felt it, and he knew that something had to change because a healthcare patient looking for healthcare can only find it if it's an option. And what happened with the AMA trying to take out the chiropractic profession was that their options were going to be depleted. And that the power, the political power, remember, people will do for power what they won't do for money.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
The politics are real. We are looking now at the intentions of power in politics that lead into medicine and healthcare. And sick care is one piece of it. And that's where the medical providers do a fabulous job. When you're sick, that's where you need to be. If it's a non-neuromuscular scale, you want to stay well, healthy, strong, resilient, and have that zest for life, then you start with what makes sense, which is a non-pharmacological approach.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
So, the organization that I work for is called the International Strategic Accelerator for Women and it provides women with an opportunity to maximize their growth. And what we've seen over Covid, which is extraordinarily unfortunate, is that women took a bigger hit in Covid than men did. And it's primarily because of their care-provider relationship.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
So if the children were out of school, the women scaled back. And so there's a now very unfortunate equity of pay that is happening for women right now because they did step away to deal with the unfortunate healthcare issues that many had to face with it. Maybe it's elder care. Our elders were at severe risk. Many people don't know this, but if an elder was taking an opiate during Covid, they're at greater risk of adverse events with Covid-19. And that information doesn't get out very often.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
And it provides an opportunity for us to really look at when you're taking medications, does it put us at risk? I like to think that people need to understand if you're taking a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory, your risk of bruising and bleeding and stomach upsets and skin reactions and blisters and increased risk of heart attacks and strokes, they're all real. I mean, that's a real unfortunate outcome. And for a lot of medical providers, they don't think of adverse events when they write the prescription. And I do want to stress that as much as the past has played a role present, we have to go back and start thinking about these moments where we start to bond together for the best patient-centric care. And that means that the doctor who writes a prescription needs to consider non-pharm first and that's by the American College of Physicians guidelines. And so the jobs that I do fundamentally work really well together which is-- you know, in Chiropractic we're very blessed because the balance between female and male ratio is starting to come to a beautiful balance but in many countries, that's not the case. And the equity of care for patients across the world is very different as well. So working to build strength in both healthcare as well as women being able to network and provide greater benefits across the world is kind of where my personal niche has been. And I love both jobs, chairman of iSAW is a voluntary position and it is to non-disclosure payment for the foundation for Chiropractic Progress as the president. Really, they have immense benefits because I see the world in a different place and I really truly believe we're heading to a much better healthcare system if we put in place what we learned from the past and we develop these core relationships. The one fellow that I talked to who was very high up in the leadership chain at the Family Physicians Association, he mentioned to me that you know, I love utilizing Chiropractors. He said leadership above me has some issues. They're older and he said sometimes it takes a fundamental change of rank and leadership to have these collaborative moments happen because you know, some MDs have no idea why they don't like chiropractors and I can tell you if you listen to the "Adjusted Reality" podcast, Contain and Eliminate with Dr. Louis Sportelli, I think their eyes would be open because it was a slanderous position that we were put in and they used celebrities like you know, Ann Landers and Elizabeth Taylor to really get out a negative message about chiropractic that was unethical, dishonest, and was trying to literally, eliminate the chiropractic profession. And now we can have these open conversations where medical providers now know, oh, that's how this happened. It was a political thing and you asked how does politics play in? That's one way.
Dr. Thomas
Sure.
Dr. Sherry
Understand the past so we can move into a beautiful brighter future.
Dr. Thomas
I really like the way you're framing that. I remember growing up in a medical household, you know if somebody needed an operation or a thing we talked about is [inaudible], the better guy, or we're in Washington DC. So my dad went to Georgetown too, and Johns Hopkins would be a good thing. I don't think we'd ever heard of Stanford, so, you know, it wasn't this world. And mentioning that somebody had gone to a chiropractor and my father putting this distasteful look on his face and saying, they're not scientific. And I didn't even know what it was. And then in my own sad story, I broke my neck, I broke my back. I couldn't walk. They're like, you'll never walk again. We're going to cut one of your legs off. And a chiropractor fixed me in three months. And then I was like, I don't know who these people are, but I think I'm going to become one of them. I was going to be an orthopedic surgeon because I was like, I have to become some kind of doctor. So I got too much wrong with me and no one's going to fix me. So that was my whole motivation. So I had this amazing female applied kinesiology, meaning heavy biochemistry and touch chiropractor, and she just went in system by system and started turning things back on. And she was the one that really first said, you know, this is a self-healing mechanism, which was what I had always believed. You know, I was like, no, no, no, you don't have to do extraordinary things. You do have to, you know, keep your side of the reserves, right? And you do have to be a certain kind of person, but then your body will heal itself. And that's what they believed. And I still think that that's like an essence, that's a core thing, that is it's kind of a freebie, you know, like, God gave it to us. So we should start there, see what we can do to bring a person up to their potential with that stuff. And there's a great chiropractic analogy that I use a lot these days, and I was like-- because we do chronic acute cases. We do the cases when the thing is really going to hell in a handbasket. That person potentially is going to die. The body's self-healing to about 30 degrees, either way. When it's here, you need some kind of interventional help. And that is where most of us are spending most of our time. You know in the lifestyle thing, I think that you know, we kind of poopoo it. The activities of daily living it's like an add-on thing that you write at the bottom of a report that nobody really does anything about. But when you're dealing with the long-term, you know, those healthy habits turning into longevity is the thing. Before Covid, I could say of all the people we had treated for 25 years, we'd only had five deaths, including old age. The number of zeros in front of that as a random probability is like five. It's impossible. And yet that's our numbers. And then when we look at acute interventions, when we're doing, you know, physical, biochemical, neuro and now regenerative medicine, our numbers are at least as good as the best people in conventional medicine, and probably much better. And yet, if you go to say any of those things and I'm doing a lot of medical education these days, so where I'm in rooms-- with big rooms with MDs. They're so cautious. I mean, we're not allowed to make medical claims, we're not even allowed to officially diagnose. So we have all these clinical impressions that just turn out to be what the person has, but, you know, officially, we're not allowed to diagnose, which is very rich. Anyway, so they're so good at saying, yes, we strongly suspect that that's what's going on here. And I go, everyone has known this for ten years. What do you mean you strongly suspect? And they go, the researches [inaudible]. So I think physicians in general, and I mean, both sides of the line and every single complementary and alternative group also are being stifled. You're not allowed to say you can cure cancer, you're not allowed to say you can change heart disease outcomes. You're not allowed to say you can do anything with stem cells. You know, so all the things that I think common sense, nobody's allowed to say. And maybe especially in this post-Covid world, and I personally think understanding you know, immunizations and that whole immunology world is-- I'm very glad I don't have that job. You know, like I'm not crazy about how it's being done, but I'm not sure I could have done a better job. And so I don't have an official opinion there. They're certainly not what I'm going to say in the air. But at the same time, we're all being kind of suppressed in terms of where's the common sense of this. And one of the things I'm really looking forward to is doing like pure research because then you just say, I'm just researching the outcomes for Alzheimer's. And I think stopping brain inflammation, maybe doing some autoimmune work, maybe doing intranasal stem cells, and then doing a brain scan and neurofeedback might be an approach. Those words roll off my tongue really easily. At the same time, I've never seen a headache that didn't go away with a chiropractic adjustment in my life. Never. And I'm like, why do chiropractors not own headaches? And then low back pain, come on. Like Chiropractors are absolutely the best at that. And yet if you say that, that's what I would do, I would own headaches and I would own low back pain. Inextricably. And not that there is invariance within the thing, but, you know, I'm still getting that does this cause strokes? And I was like, wow, did they dig you up out of a 100-year-old hole in the ground? Like it never did. You know, like we know where it came from. But I just, you know, sort of tying that thought back, that we always compared outcomes and strategies to Western Europe, so I always looked at Germany, they got doctors, they're smart. I looked at Japanese people, they have a little different longer-term attitude maybe than we have. And they do-- well, in the day it was like one-eight, the number of surgeries that we do and have the same outcomes. So they obviously spend way less money, but also they don't put people through needless surgeries. And it's a hard thing when you're coming up, I'm probably way more oppositional than you are. You know our strategy is to be a gladiator and just do it better than everybody else and not be very sympathetic when people are not doing what we think is the right way. So hopefully, people are as diplomatic as you take over and people like me like don't, but I'll just run my little hospital. But anyway, I think going forward it's going to be really hard with those people in place to say, oh, by the way, you know, we're doing what, 80% needless surgeries in this country.
Dr. Sherry
Here are a couple of things that do get awareness is, number one, ease of care. And it's easy to give an $8 bottle of Vicodin.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
It's easy to take that $8 bottle of Vicodin because you're not missing work and it doesn't cost you anything because the insurance company has elected to cover all of it. And there's the ability to mask the pain because a lot of patients are unaware that you may not be actually well just because you're not feeling the symptoms.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
And so we have an incredible amount of reality to face that education is key and where they're getting that education from is absolutely incredible.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
And one of the things that are very important for the person out there that's looking for true wellness care is to look who's actually getting the outcomes that you want. And one of them comes to mind is a doctor, Susan Welch, who works out of the hospital in Florida, Florida State University, I believe it is, and she's there with 13 or 1500 employees. She works as a chiropractor in the traumatic brain injury unit. Now, first, you know, the days of, like you said, you know chiropractors do X, Y, and Z, and it's all negative. One, that happens to be a stroke. And that is a very unfortunate because you're right, when they don't keep up with the research, it's painful. But she was one of the first staff members to ever get a Press Ganey award. And one would ask, what is a Press Ganey award? And not only now has she won, but she has five of them. A Press Ganey award is [inaudible] out a survey and it comes back on the quarterly aa nd hospitals use it to see where their qualitative care indices are. And I'm sure that bonuses get wrapped around it. But this one individual, this one chiropractor in the traumatic brain injury, you have to know for those of you listening, when you're dealing with traumatic brain injury patients, those are the toughest patients to deal with on multiple levels. Number one, there's a severe emotional component to be having a traumatic brain injury.
Dr. Thomas
Sure.
Dr. Sherry
Number two, the quality of the index of life is impacted. And number three, they may or may not be cognizant enough to even have the ability to adhere to treatment programs. So you always have an advocate with them. And she actually had a 100% patient satisfaction rate, five times.
Dr. Thomas
Wow.
Dr. Sherry
So I want to go to the provider who is in these very difficult positions and get the care that is necessary for me to live a well-balanced and highly active lifestyle. And that's where I want to wish between the sick care and the well care. And, you know, it's one thing like you said, you became a physician because you had issues that you wanted yourself. That means, without your chiropractor, where would you be right now? You may not even be on this podcast.
Dr. Thomas
Right.
Dr. Sherry
But we look at some of the things that you talked about, back pain, neck pain. Well, where do you start with those? The pain is a red flag. It tells you that something is not right. And if you start with a chiropractic adjustment, that starts the whole beginning. Now, what's best about chiropractic is we're not just a modality, we're not just an adjustment, we are a lifestyle. So we look at addressing the muscles, the exercise, the home care, you know, the nutrition, dehydration, the anti-inflammatory diets, the supplements that may be needed, and then ensuring the ergonomics of life and sleep. Like I know many, we had a conversation with an ultramarathon on my "Adjusted Reality" podcast. He was not aware that there was such a thing as sleep ergonomics. And yes, there is.
Dr. Thomas
Nice.
Dr. Sherry
You know, being able to have your activities of daily living increase. And there is a study through Adams, through Spine Journal and it was in 2017. It's a 12-year longitudinal study. It's a massive study and yet no one really took that much time to really showcase but what it shared in this 12-year longitudinal study was why people were going to chiropractors. And the study was really impressive. People were going to chiropractors not because they were in pain, they were showcasing that their quality of life was improving, their sleep was improving, fitness levels were improving, how they felt generally was improving. And that tells you that we need to look at more research. There was a study done, it's called The Verdict as well as the Act One that was done in the military that was talking about military. If you talk about pain in this one study that was $7 million that was done by the government, Act One, it showcased that those that were seen by a chiropractor for low back pain, they increased their activities of daily living, they had greater mobility in what they were doing, they had greater stability in what they were doing, and greater flexibility. And isn't that what everybody wants in life? When you get up from a chair, you want to be able to get up and feel strong that your hamstrings in your quads participated. Being able to do-- lift up your grandchild or, you know, walk your dog, that doesn't come from a pill. And one of my favorite Yogi Sherry quotes is, "the past was a pill for every ill. The future is a DC to nurture". You need to be nurtured. And that's what I believe the future really depends on. An MD does not have the time or the specialty to have the nurturing that a chiropractor will bring to that patient. Because we're not talking about the illness. We're talking about the wellness.
Dr. Thomas
Yeah, clearly. It's solving a different problem. And so, in foreign service, there's something called long-term enlightened self-interest, where you do many things that aren't immediate paybacks because next year or next decade or 100 years from now. And we're part of the Japanese design of the 100-year health plan. They actually have a 200 -year health plan. And you're sitting there going, wow, we're having trouble thinking about next month. And it's just a different attitude. And one of the takeaway messages that I think is really true is that it is more efficient to certainly do the acute care for the illness. Like if you do your rehab for cardiac before you get the heart attack, that's a much better story than if you wait till after a heart attack or stroke. And then it's better just not to get cancer. And both of those things are avoidable conditions. All of them have, you know, a pretty steady state that shows you're going to get to this point. And in my opinion, you know, diagnosable, predictable, all that kind of stuff. And then when we're looking, especially at this stage, I have a lot of patients my age, and we're talking about strength, vitality, and let's face it, longevity. And I don't know how many times I've heard, oh, I don't really want to be alive if I'm not in good shape. The supposition that you wouldn't be in good shape. And there's an amazing sort of like health metaphor is that your life is like a candle and it burns down and even lights, and then one day it just goes out. Hopefully, you made love to your spouse that day and had a good breakfast. Then you just die. You know, as opposed to, you spend-- you know, if the average death age is like 77, 76, depending on which study you like, those people are busy dying for ten years before that. They're my age and they're dying. And we see those people. And, you know, you look at Russia, you know, with what's going on. The average death age for males in Russia went decreased. That's bad. By four years in the last 20 years. Definitely an alcoholism problem, definitely a meaning of life problem, definitely a role in society problem, lots of infrastructure, any kinds of reasons for it, but it impacts whole countries in the way they are. And one of the things that I think that we can do is we can put out a picture of a different model. So I think living to 95, it's actually statistically almost impossible to live past 93. Everyone knows somebody that's a hundred years old, but you don't know five, so it's almost impossible. So people die at 77, 85, and 93. So what are the people that aren't even close to dying doing? And almost all of them have some kind of a physical regime. Half of them are probably chiropractic patients. Like all of my patients that are super, super healthy still want me to adjust them, even though I don't really do that on a daily basis. But if I get a really serious patient, I'm going to adjust them. If I get a person who just won't leave me alone, then I'll adjust them. Now, we're also doing a lot of other things, and we have programs that kind of measure biochemistry and neurology and intervene almost in a sickness way, but in a longevity way. I think that's sellable. I think it's a-- let's change your death date. Let's change your expectation of how vital you are in this existence. And I think especially in the Silicon Valley, I mean, you're in my same town. Everybody here is so on the treadmill and so obsessed with progress because there's so much pressure here and we've had people move back to New York City to have a nicer life. We're in a pressure.
Dr. Sherry
Yes, we are.
Dr. Thomas
Yeah. So it's hard to say I want to get you to live to be 93 or 95, but I noticed when I say it, the next time I say it, a person wants to understand what that looks like. So, we're looking at kind of putting together what does that model look like? And again, physical, biochemical, neuroenergetic is kind of the way we view the piece parts. You know, again, when we're looking at the physical side, half the time people are going to three doctors to do what a chiropractor could do, especially a good one. We're not the 11th doctor anymore, we're like the 4th, so it's not so bad, but we're not the first. And I just look at it and I just go, wow, because you know, I have 20 years doing that or 30. You know, you've got a bunch of experience and capability. Why aren't we the first one? And the answer is, we're probably not on their insurance and we're not being referred by their PCP. And yet their PCP doesn't want to do the work that we can do. We get PCP referrals because we usually fix their parents. I fixed the guy's mom, so now he'll refer people to me. You know, but it's not like his friends said, oh yeah, these people can handle a part of this thing. The one you don't want to handle and the two you're not set up to handle. I think that there's an opportunity there, and I'm sort of hoping that there's financial pressure because I don't see the politics of it changing that quickly, at least in my lifetime. Hopefully, you'll have the presence of mind to stay as positive as you are and keep pushing on that rock. From my point of view, I have like five more years of pushing on the rock by changing individual outcomes. You know, we are very successful at getting people well. And I think that if a whole bunch of people does that, eventually it gets out. From a political point of view, I almost hope that the recessionary, inflationary, and long-term debt pressure comes in and says we have to stop spending you know, half a trillion dollars a year on healthcare because again, all these other countries that are doing it better and everyone knows these statistics. Our statistics are, you know, we spend the most or, you know, in the top two, and our outcome is like 63rd or something. It's not even close to what it could be. And, you know, especially when all you have to do is copy another group. The Italians are using chiropractors as primary screeners for a whole bunch of things. And I'm Italian, I love Italians, but when the Italians are out producing you, you're doing something wrong. You know, it's like, come on, all you have to do is copy. So I'm encouraged that we're kind of moving toward it. I'm encouraged that it's becoming more inclusive. In my practice, the very best followers of complex, acute situations which is really functional medicine, you know, physical medicine management are females. From a neuro point of view, we know that you know, the female brain has a bigger corpus callosum and it can multitask, even though that's a false word, but they can handle more of those details. And it's a little bit better at situational diagnosis, reading the room. And so I do think that females are key in this. Being a male, traditional, old, white guy, you know, I actually think everybody is important in this, but I think the people that are going to drive it are going to be female, and I think that they're going to be younger, which is weird coming from being me, because I think I'm one of the people that's going to drive this. But I never really thought of myself as being male or female when I was a doctor. So I never really had any of those kinds of issues. I just sort of saw it as I'm the person here to solve your problem. You know, and it's like and I'm completely busy doing that. I don't have any extra to emote sexuality. And so I get that it's a big subject these days. I'm kind of like whatever it takes for anyone to step up, I'm for. And then ultimately, I don't want to leave half the population out of anything, whether it's rich or poor or male or female or, you know, any kind of preference. I don't really care about any of those things because it has to be that it works for everybody. And then men-- and I make fun of men, and I'm allowed to because I am one. And men are-- we have neglect as a-- it's almost like a standard diagnosis. You know, we can be bleeding from an artery. If you ask us how we're doing, we're going to say fine. We are programmed that way. It's not a good or a bad thing, it's just a true thing. And the women are the only ones that really see it. You know, like with my wife, every once in a while I go, is there a, you know, two-ton rhinoceros running at the side of me? Because I might not see it. Whereas I can diagnose you from across the parking lot. You know, It's what we can all see. So I'm really kind of big on-- it sounds a little bit of like kumbaya'ish that you know, we all got to work together but I think there are individual skills and talents. And I think the people that are going to make the changes are going to be female. And I think that they're going to be your age. That's why you're on this podcast.
Dr. Sherry
It's insightful and I will tell you that from the experience of where I see the impact of how women and men come together, most of the highly successful corporate 50 companies have a balance of gender equity. And it's because it's what you see, and women will see things differently and men will see things differently. And it's incorporating those value statements and bringing in the important visibility that comes from women coming into the workplace and also into the medical practices that will help balance it. And sometimes it's just as frank as men may want to talk about their prostate with a man as women may want to talk about their menstrual cycle or their menopause with a woman. Only because there are certain times where comfort of being able to say can you reflect on this with me and not having to worry about how it was worded or what they may think. And that comfort zone is there. It's an important piece to the patient to feel that comfort level and it also goes with diversity. In that, if your first language is not English, then it does make a difference and there's a barrier to understanding the physician or understanding the patient.
Dr. Thomas
Sure.
Dr. Sherry
So I am a very, very strong advocate for being able to have a comfortable situation for a patient. It's not about the doctor, it's about the patient. If the patient has had a very unfortunate sexual experience of violence, for example, and it happens to be the same, the opposite sex, they may never feel comfortable with that provider because there's always going to be a trust issue. We come that with, you know, sex trafficking that comes in and women more traffic than men, but don't ever underestimate the power of where men are sitting too and that they need to have an ability to have an outreach and a comfort level with that provider as well. So the diversity, the equity, and the inclusivity are pieces that we do need to bring forth and have our mirror up to say am I opening this office or this visit with the best I can do for the patient and hearing them and providing them cause if English is not their second language, it might be the best to have a companion in the room that speaks the language so that there's always a translation. They can feel comfortable. The doctor actually hears that you know, I'm not sleeping, I'm sweating during the night, my throat has been sore for months. All these things come into play and you need to have the right questions and the patient needs to be able to execute their communication pattern as freely and as comfortable as possible.
Dr. Thomas
Nice, well articulated. So I think we're going to hold it here. We're probably going to chop this up into two different podcasts and do it that way. You and I think you and I could talk for days on a lot of these subjects.
Dr. Sherry
Agree.
Dr. Thomas
It's been enlightening and I really appreciate your insights. And I'm more optimistic than I was an hour ago, so that's a positive thing. I am working on this project of redoing the scope of practice and I think I'll tap on you to get your insights on that. I do think that there needs to be some primary work on actually saying how medicine should be run and I think it's got to be the people in the middle of it that are kind of looking at it. So, once again, thank you so much and I'll get you a copy of all this.
Dr. Sherry
Outstanding. It's my pleasure. And I'm very proud that you took this and you're now taking it to the next level. So, congratulations. I wish you the very best in how this rolls out and I'm always here to support you.
Dr. Thomas
Great. Thanks again. Bye bye.
Dr. Sherry
Take care.
Outro
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